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FrodosPet

(5,169 posts)
137. As an Islamic scholar, can you tell us what non-Muslims should think about these passages?
Sat Jan 23, 2016, 02:01 AM
Jan 2016
Qu'ran

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/002-qmt.php#002.190

002.190
Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.


002.191
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.



002.216
Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.



http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/005-qmt.php#005.033

005.033
The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;



005.038
As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.


http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/008-qmt.php#008.012

008.012
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."


008.038
Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).


008.039
And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.


008.060
Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.



http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/009-qmt.php#009.005

009.005
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.



009.014
Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,



009.029
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.


009.123
O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.


http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/017-qmt.php#017.016

017.016
When We decide to destroy a population, We (first) send a definite order to those among them who are given the good things of this life and yet transgress; so that the word is proved true against them: then (it is) We destroy them utterly.


Hadiths

http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/052-sbt.php#004.052.177

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."



Volume 4, Book 52, Number 179:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Turks; people with small eyes, red faces, and flat noses. Their faces will look like shields coated with leather. The Hour will not be established till you fight with people whose shoes are made of hair."



Volume 4, Book 52, Number 182:
Narrated 'Ali:

When it was the day of the battle of Al-Ahzab (i.e. the clans), Allah's Apostle said, "O Allah! Fill their (i.e. the infidels') houses and graves with fire as they busied us so much that we did not perform the prayer (i.e. 'Asr) till the sun set."



Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256:
Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama:

The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." I also heard the Prophet saying, "The institution of Hima is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle."


http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/019-smt.php#019.4321

Book 019, Number 4321:
It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.



http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/muslim/019-smt.php#019.4294

Book 019, Number 4294:
It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them. When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah's Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah's behest with regard to them.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Well that is certainly a helpful response. potone Jan 2016 #1
That'd be like Phelps preaching in favor of gay marriage. n/t christx30 Jan 2016 #3
sick fuck Skittles Jan 2016 #2
If this story was carried by a German broadcaster, branford Jan 2016 #4
Thank you. I wondered about that. 7962 Jan 2016 #5
The German government is failing completely in their handling christx30 Jan 2016 #8
Okay. So the press cannot carry the story. Is there any jwirr Jan 2016 #29
Well, we're doing it right now. christx30 Jan 2016 #39
It's unclear if carrying such a story, by itself or with similar stories, branford Jan 2016 #50
Do you think we're completely uninformed just due to bureaucratic incompetence? DFW Jan 2016 #186
And claiming that women are responsible for their own rapes ISN'T hate speech? smirkymonkey Jan 2016 #59
And pay for it. christx30 Jan 2016 #60
I agree. branford Jan 2016 #64
Correct. +10 840high Jan 2016 #86
That was probably Mohammed's excuse tabasco Jan 2016 #6
Some here would give you a hide for that 7962 Jan 2016 #9
And get you jailed and fined christx30 Jan 2016 #11
And killed in Saudi Arabia Reter Jan 2016 #126
Why would anyone vote to hide a historical fact? totodeinhere Jan 2016 #12
Jesus of Nazareth cured leprosy, too. Also a fact. cheapdate Jan 2016 #53
I doubt you'd get a hide for that, since its not illicit to cure leprosy. 7962 Jan 2016 #68
The Imam is clearly a Muslim and clearly an asshole. cheapdate Jan 2016 #70
Well, marrying a 9 yr old should be frowned upon 7962 Jan 2016 #80
To be clear, you're talking about a "wedding" from 1,400 years ago? cheapdate Jan 2016 #82
I'm referring to the fact that they're doing it TODAY in MANY countries, 7962 Jan 2016 #85
Child marriage is allowed by the state in Canada? No f&%king way. cheapdate Jan 2016 #91
Of course its not allowed. Provincially; but there isnt an actual national law. 7962 Jan 2016 #97
And here's an article that says Atlanta is one of the leading cheapdate Jan 2016 #98
Two totally different subjects; but does Islam also allow prostitution? Why, yes, it does! 7962 Jan 2016 #120
The subject was the despicable beliefs of a German Imam, cheapdate Jan 2016 #132
The fact that both are accepted as part of the Islamic religion. 7962 Jan 2016 #133
Yes, both practices are widely accepted in various interpretations of Islam. cheapdate Jan 2016 #135
Historical facts are frequently hidden philosslayer Jan 2016 #166
I can understand the irrelevance part. But how can stating a fact be inflammatory? totodeinhere Jan 2016 #168
This is a "public" enterprise where posts are judged by a random group of participants philosslayer Jan 2016 #170
Well... Dr. Strange Jan 2016 #187
there are people putting their heads into the sand and hoping that all the islamic MariaThinks Jan 2016 #52
They are fools. smirkymonkey Jan 2016 #56
Absolutely right. I've been saying it since this flood started. 7962 Jan 2016 #69
You are absolutely right. Not all of them are bad, but too many of them refuse to smirkymonkey Jan 2016 #74
i don't even care if someone assimilates, just don't try to impose sharia law on everyone MariaThinks Jan 2016 #144
That's just as bad... TipTok Jan 2016 #177
+1 840high Jan 2016 #89
Think about this: guillaumeb Jan 2016 #156
No. The US did not make Pakistan attack India MariaThinks Jan 2016 #158
When the British separated India and Pakistan MariaThinks Jan 2016 #159
Your question, while a good one, presupposes that England had a right to separate guillaumeb Jan 2016 #161
the fact is they did not. My point was about what happened between the muslims and the hindus in MariaThinks Jan 2016 #169
England controlled India until it was forced out. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #171
great for your research, but you ignored my original point. Who gives a shit MariaThinks Jan 2016 #173
Can I take your "who gives a shit..." guillaumeb Jan 2016 #174
you won't answer my point at all. MariaThinks Jan 2016 #175
The answer to your question is that violence is bad. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #178
that's a nonanswer but i'll answer your questions MariaThinks Jan 2016 #180
I would add on thing to your list: guillaumeb Jan 2016 #182
Bangladesh happened because east Pakistan refugees were MariaThinks Jan 2016 #183
The "how many" argument as a comparison for which guillaumeb Jan 2016 #184
your argument is what trump would use against black people marching and MariaThinks Jan 2016 #185
While we disagree on some matters, the exchange has been interesting. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #189
your last point - the syrian refugees are being created by muslims. MariaThinks Jan 2016 #190
the radical muslims 'few' are killing MariaThinks Jan 2016 #179
The US military kills innocent people around the world every day. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #181
But there were important political reasons he did that FrodosPet Jan 2016 #20
The "men" he refers to are nothing more than animals, apparently. crim son Jan 2016 #7
Really. No one I know. Such nonsense we hear!! nt 7962 Jan 2016 #10
Well, Mr. Abu-Yusuf, speaking of inflammatory and provocative behavior... jberryhill Jan 2016 #13
Deport his ass... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2016 #14
+1000 smirkymonkey Jan 2016 #57
Just Stryder Jan 2016 #15
I think that European governments should make it clear to refugees Beacool Jan 2016 #16
WAIT A MINUTE !! FairWinds Jan 2016 #17
Google is your friend. branford Jan 2016 #18
So the DP Platform says we cannot . . FairWinds Jan 2016 #19
You actually see "dont criticize Israel" in the DP Platform? Where? 7962 Jan 2016 #21
Criticize Israel all you want. branford Jan 2016 #58
Are you truly denying this happened leftynyc Jan 2016 #41
Leave the comfort of 840high Jan 2016 #90
OK,more information is coming out on this propaganda . . FairWinds Jan 2016 #109
In other future news, German Imam justifies his own severe beating for talking shit. nt Lucky Luciano Jan 2016 #22
No kidding. christx30 Jan 2016 #23
*snort* smirkymonkey Jan 2016 #62
Then they are rabid animals, not human beings. (apologies to non-human species). Elmer S. E. Dump Jan 2016 #24
What's funniest about this is that no one is half-naked in Germany on New Year's Eve Yo_Mama Jan 2016 #25
I also read today that they think the Germans need to ban alcohol because they think it smirkymonkey Jan 2016 #63
Backing up your post: christx30 Jan 2016 #73
Not, I think, to most, but the fact that this sort of thing is openly said in Europe Yo_Mama Jan 2016 #87
Yes, I read some of that in German interviews. Yo_Mama Jan 2016 #84
Castrate those men who think it okay to rape, mutilate and bkkyosemite Jan 2016 #26
Yeah, he's a horrible human being Mufaddal Jan 2016 #27
It's not bigorty to say christx30 Jan 2016 #30
I think you misunderstood Mufaddal Jan 2016 #32
Is it a historical fact? Yes. christx30 Jan 2016 #33
It's actually been the subject of long dispute among Muslim scholars Mufaddal Jan 2016 #35
The Imam is saying that it's ok to rape women christx30 Jan 2016 #37
Again, that's some nice liberal racism Mufaddal Jan 2016 #40
Are you a woman? leftynyc Jan 2016 #42
Mufaddel is a male name TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2016 #114
Thanks leftynyc Jan 2016 #139
Condoning that behavior is backwards. christx30 Jan 2016 #47
+1000 smirkymonkey Jan 2016 #188
If you're an Islamic scholar, then you probably already know whats allowed. 7962 Jan 2016 #49
Anyone who blames rape on the victim awoke_in_2003 Jan 2016 #88
Nice to read some sanity here. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #102
Thanks for the welcome Mufaddal Jan 2016 #110
You have very few posts. TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2016 #115
Very few posts because I just joined. Mufaddal Jan 2016 #117
I am not tolerant of any religion that is not supportive TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2016 #121
K thanks for the reductionist views and inductive reasoning Mufaddal Jan 2016 #125
Not expert. Just not in denial, either. TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2016 #128
That's cool Mufaddal Jan 2016 #129
Fundamentalists! Fundamentalists of all stripes. TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2016 #130
Which holy book would you like me to quote bullshit from, I'll let you pick first snooper2 Jan 2016 #191
The religion groups do have non-believers who post. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #116
Jesus supported punitive amputations and beheadings? FrodosPet Jan 2016 #138
Are you saying that only followers of Islam engaged in these practices? guillaumeb Jan 2016 #148
Wow! Total question avoidance! FrodosPet Jan 2016 #150
By your reply, guillaumeb Jan 2016 #151
Yes, I am an ex-Christian. That does not mean I disrespect respectable Christians or Muslims FrodosPet Jan 2016 #153
As an ex-Christian, you are probably familiar with what Jesus said guillaumeb Jan 2016 #154
If defending rape, child marriage & prostitution is "sanity", I'll pass. 7962 Jan 2016 #123
As an Islamic scholar, can you tell us what non-Muslims should think about these passages? FrodosPet Jan 2016 #137
I think they need to crack down on the source of the problem, which is the radical smirkymonkey Jan 2016 #76
And the right will take advantage of the christx30 Jan 2016 #79
Should have been done long ago, but they wont do it. I dont know why. 7962 Jan 2016 #124
Yeah, there's anti-Muslim sentiment on this thread TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2016 #112
This message was self-deleted by its author PersonNumber503602 Jan 2016 #45
Truth is not bigotry. 840high Jan 2016 #93
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2016 #28
How big a following does he have? Bradical79 Jan 2016 #31
Putting aside the source issue MosheFeingold Jan 2016 #36
Saudi Wahabis itcfish Jan 2016 #44
Post removed Post removed Jan 2016 #34
Sad part is that many of his flock would agree with this including flamingdem Jan 2016 #38
Just Like the Catholic Priests itcfish Jan 2016 #43
Yet catholic priests rarely have a contingent of progressives defending them PersonNumber503602 Jan 2016 #46
We cut the balls off a dog that humps your leg NickB79 Jan 2016 #48
these imams don't seem to have any sympathy for women. MariaThinks Jan 2016 #51
Yet another in a series of "Muslim hating" posts that ignore that Germany has a long standing guillaumeb Jan 2016 #54
This Egyptian woman disagrees with you Dems to Win Jan 2016 #136
Read my post #96 with many statistics from a variety of sources. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #147
More information that might help you: guillaumeb Jan 2016 #55
If you have a domestic problem with sexual assault of women, branford Jan 2016 #61
Does the German culture tolerate rape? guillaumeb Jan 2016 #65
You're asking the wrong question. branford Jan 2016 #66
+1000 smirkymonkey Jan 2016 #67
As I previously stated, if rape was a problem exclusive to certain cultures, guillaumeb Jan 2016 #71
No culture has eliminated rape, or is likely do to so. branford Jan 2016 #77
Rape in an epidemic, and has been for centuries. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #96
Besides the fact that many of those statistics are questionable, at best, branford Jan 2016 #104
"Questionable" because they do not fit your conclusions? guillaumeb Jan 2016 #105
xactly 840high Jan 2016 #94
see post 96 guillaumeb Jan 2016 #103
Today's story from Deutsch Welle Dems to Win Jan 2016 #72
I did a search of this story last night and found it only on right wing sites Warpy Jan 2016 #75
Well, when this is all you're used to... christx30 Jan 2016 #78
Exactly, and it's why the Imam explained himself above ^^ Warpy Jan 2016 #92
Quote from the above article. christx30 Jan 2016 #95
No, he's saying that's the reasoning of the gropers and rapists and that it is wrong Warpy Jan 2016 #99
QUote from OP: christx30 Jan 2016 #100
See post 72 7962 Jan 2016 #81
You can easily find the video of the interview (I already posted a link). branford Jan 2016 #83
And you, or others here, can easily read post 96 guillaumeb Jan 2016 #101
Yes, we all saw your bullshit. plus5mace Jan 2016 #106
One way to attack information that runs counter to your narrative is to dismiss it. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #113
Your arguments, at best, favor limiting entry and immigration branford Jan 2016 #107
You mischaracterize my arguments. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #149
You didn't address my points again. branford Jan 2016 #152
"Israel National News" is a right-wing racist israeli news site. Little Tich Jan 2016 #108
The only question is: christx30 Jan 2016 #111
One can only wonder about the motives when someone posts articles from a news site that isn't even Little Tich Jan 2016 #127
That is still better than excusing rape. christx30 Jan 2016 #131
It seems as if the Imams words were taken out of context Little Tich Jan 2016 #134
So "thats just how they are" is supposed to be a BETTER explanation? 7962 Jan 2016 #143
That's pretty much what Trump said christx30 Jan 2016 #145
I'm finding it hard to find the video of him PersonNumber503602 Jan 2016 #118
The "context" is still terrible, branford Jan 2016 #119
Yeah, I agree. It's probably best for him to keep his thoughts to himself. PersonNumber503602 Jan 2016 #122
While many forms of prejudice are criticized at DU, guillaumeb Jan 2016 #155
Oh, I completely agree. Little Tich Jan 2016 #157
If I posted similar things about nearly any other people, or religions, guillaumeb Jan 2016 #163
This isn't anti-Muslim or Islamophobia. christx30 Jan 2016 #160
The very words of your denial contain the proof of Islamophobia and culture prejudice. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #162
I am in the US. christx30 Jan 2016 #164
I am not certain if you read my questions. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #165
Wow bdwker Jan 2016 #167
I'm against pretending everything is hunky dory christx30 Jan 2016 #172
Against multiculturalism and convinced that some cultures are below others. guillaumeb Jan 2016 #176
Does this story make an appearance anywhere else? crim son Jan 2016 #140
See post 72. N/t christx30 Jan 2016 #141
Thank you. I normally make a point of reading a thread so I am not redundant crim son Jan 2016 #142
ironic n/t Enrique Jan 2016 #146
Yes, yes it is, because now anybody is permitted to kick this Imam's ass Quantess Jan 2016 #192
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