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leveymg

(36,418 posts)
35. That amount appears about right. The rest of your assertions are not well established.
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:39 PM
Sep 2013

Last edited Mon Sep 16, 2013, 06:17 PM - Edit history (3)

The larger 333mm improvised munitions that killed the vast majority of people in eastern Damascus are cannibalized rocket motors with no guidance or stabilization and what appear to be truck mufflers bolted on top. They are not significantly more sophisticated than the improvised rocket assisted munitions (IRAMs) that various opposition groups and al-Qaeda has been observed using in several countries in the region.

Where did you get this? "Also, they were made in Russia." The larger 330mm IRAMs were most definitely not made in Russia. They are locally or regionally manufactured in workshops, not Russian munitions. The smaller, 140 mm artillery rockets are standard Soviet era munitions and the Syrian military has them in large numbers - but, they only carry about 2 liters of Sarin and only accounted for about one-in-seven of the fatalities, according to the HRW report.

The fact that two different types of munitions -- one improvised, the other standard military -- were used on different areas with very different effects is potentially significant. It's been established to a reasonable certitude that the smaller, more accurate, but less deadly military rockets were launched from either the military airfield or one of several nearby bases in the southwestern part of town near the suburb of Moadamiyeh that suffered relatively light casualties (about 100 killed.)

We now know based upon the UN report that larger improvised rockets, the ones that had a capacity of approximately 50 liters each, that killed most were launched from a location almost due west from Zamalka/Ein Tarma. Since these IRAMs have very short range, it is now clear that they were launched from the adjacent area known as Jobar, which is a contested area - not "regime-controlled territory" as the State Dept. report initially claimed. The UN study also contradicts the initial published reports that quoted opposition witnesses that the eastern launch site was likely the October Military Museum grounds. That is located about 2 kilometers to the north of the flight path determined for the larger rockets. So, we still don't know who launched the improvised rockets, and it appears that there is yet another party that has been using virtually identical rockets since that group reportedly introduced them to Syria late last year - Hezbollah, three of the members of which reportedly succumbed to Sarin gas exposure in Jobar that night.

Finally, the UN report says nothing about the quality or origins of the Sarin used, merely that the samples taken showed traces of Serin. While there variation is not great, about 10-20%, the percentage of victims who tested positive for Sarin poisoning was somewhat less for those from the eastern area where the improvised munitions were used. It is not known what accounts for this variation, but we might speculate that potentially this could be due to a Sarin of a different concentration or origin being used. If that were found to be the case, it would be further indication that potentially a militia or other third-party group was responsible for rocketing that area.

350 liters of high quality Sarin. joshcryer Sep 2013 #1
Very interesting site Turborama Sep 2013 #2
That amount appears about right. The rest of your assertions are not well established. leveymg Sep 2013 #35
Ah, yes, the 140mm is Russia, the 330mm is unlikely to be rebels. joshcryer Sep 2013 #56
Note a couple things: the report makes no mention of sarin quality - that's a claim made by the UK leveymg Sep 2013 #57
Moses' latest conclusion is that it's not an opposition controlled weapon. joshcryer Sep 2013 #58
Moses isn't Moses, and he's changed his tune since June. He's not really an expert, and the experts leveymg Sep 2013 #59
I think Moses was winging it. joshcryer Sep 2013 #61
I think he still is. He's just playing to a wider audience now, leveymg Sep 2013 #66
even I noticed the rockets shot from LG. trailers had 'canister' tops ~ the size of 30 gal aquarium Sunlei Sep 2013 #70
A typical mid-size delivery truck is fine for transporting 3-4 of these things. leveymg Sep 2013 #72
you have very good points. I hope Assad has control over what he is supposed to turn over. Sunlei Sep 2013 #73
Assad clearly does not have a monopoly on either these rockets or poisonous chemicals leveymg Sep 2013 #74
that's a pick-up truck. The huge rocket launchers looked like semi trailers pulled by large trucks. Sunlei Sep 2013 #75
The al-Qaeda PU truck rockets are about 4 feet long. The ones used on 8/21 are 6'6" leveymg Sep 2013 #76
that is an excellent report and this link inside was also well detailed. Sunlei Sep 2013 #49
and now for the 'big surprise' azurnoir Sep 2013 #3
It falls under Chapter 6 with a "further measures" recommendation for Chapter 7. joshcryer Sep 2013 #5
hmmm someone better tell Russia that they have "no choice" azurnoir Sep 2013 #6
Russia is commenting on a resolution it hasn't read. joshcryer Sep 2013 #9
if you actually read the article you'll find that azurnoir Sep 2013 #15
Russia was commenting on a US statement. joshcryer Sep 2013 #55
are you confused? azurnoir Sep 2013 #60
Right, but Russia doesn't know what the US has written. joshcryer Sep 2013 #62
If it were to go that far Russia would veto any military intervention per azurnoir Sep 2013 #63
The US isn't going to include military intervention. joshcryer Sep 2013 #65
Most likely? Assad will hand the weapons over to Russia still because as long as that happens cstanleytech Sep 2013 #7
I would think the question would then be azurnoir Sep 2013 #14
I think the US would. Its not a perfect solution as those who used them wont be put on trial cstanleytech Sep 2013 #54
Kerry himself has says that there is no trigger karynnj Sep 2013 #52
Kerry says now did he get that from Kissinger or Reagan the former he takes advice from azurnoir Sep 2013 #53
I can't parse your confused subject line karynnj Sep 2013 #64
So what - USA promoted chemical weapons before, then got Saddam hung for it. ConcernedCanuk Sep 2013 #4
Are you seriously saying "So what" (sic) Turborama Sep 2013 #8
Not at all . . . ConcernedCanuk Sep 2013 #26
"So what" Daniel537 Sep 2013 #10
How you doing arguing with the strawmen? NoOneMan Sep 2013 #28
I have zero tolerance for fools whose first response to a report of mass murder is Daniel537 Sep 2013 #33
This report is a political justification for war in today's political environment NoOneMan Sep 2013 #37
Try to find one of my posts saying mass murder is ok ConcernedCanuk Sep 2013 #31
Do you care about crimes against humanity geek tragedy Sep 2013 #11
You are not paying attention ConcernedCanuk Sep 2013 #19
Have you ever answered 'so what' to a report geek tragedy Sep 2013 #22
No - not that I recall. ConcernedCanuk Sep 2013 #25
If one was being use to justify bombings and attrocities against the American people I would. NoOneMan Sep 2013 #29
I find the whole 'moral imperative' stance hypocritical....otoh snappyturtle Sep 2013 #16
" it was a heinous act that occurred in Syria." - yes it certainly was ConcernedCanuk Sep 2013 #17
Trust me I agree with you as unpopular as that obviously is. snappyturtle Sep 2013 #18
Agreeing with me is not as unpopular as one might think. ConcernedCanuk Sep 2013 #24
I don't think some people see this as "another" war NoOneMan Sep 2013 #32
Here Is A Good Copy Of The Whole Report, Sir The Magistrate Sep 2013 #12
Thanks a lot! Turborama Sep 2013 #13
This should encourage Assad to quit what using military tactics instead of political ones in Syria. freshwest Sep 2013 #21
Thank you the report clarified some points n/t azurnoir Sep 2013 #20
Thank you for the link Hydra Sep 2013 #51
Seems that some Crow Eating is in order! nt Cryptoad Sep 2013 #23
I don't think any crow should be eaten. John2 Sep 2013 #27
So you reject the report as well as rejecting the geek tragedy Sep 2013 #30
Here is what I think about Syria giving up their chemical weapons.... NoOneMan Sep 2013 #34
Huh? Syria's regime has massacred tens of thousands geek tragedy Sep 2013 #36
Not as cool ones as the US uses though NoOneMan Sep 2013 #38
The UN is taking their illegal chemical arms. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #39
I just think they should be able to trade them in. Really, I have doubts of their cost efficiency NoOneMan Sep 2013 #41
That is nonsensical gibberish. geek tragedy Sep 2013 #44
This entire arbitrary debate about what is a moral way to massacre people is NoOneMan Sep 2013 #45
No, rational or decent human being John2 Sep 2013 #46
You're on record as saying the Assad regime geek tragedy Sep 2013 #47
Do you feel the same about Iran? maddezmom Sep 2013 #68
Oh, John2 Sep 2013 #43
Most, but I'm sure you will say otherwise. nt geek tragedy Sep 2013 #48
Post removed Post removed Sep 2013 #40
So, you think Obama is as scary as the Nazis were geek tragedy Sep 2013 #42
I agree that it could be a huge mistake. arewenotdemo Sep 2013 #50
What's Ban Ki Moon coming from South Korea got to do with anything? n/t Turborama Sep 2013 #67
BTW, the head of the UN's investigative mission is not a Sunni Muslim Turborama Sep 2013 #69
The US should consider providing more food and medical aid to Syria through the UN. David__77 Sep 2013 #71
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