Religion

DetlefK

(16,670 posts)

58. Imagine arguing with 10 kids each day.

Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:05 AM

Mar 2015

"No, you can't do this, because it would have the following negative consequences for you and our society: ..."
"No, you can't do this, because it would have the following negative consequences for you and our society: ..."
"No, you can't do this, because it would have the following negative consequences for you and our society: ..."
"No, you can't do this, because it would have the following negative consequences for you and our society: ..."
"No, you can't do this, because it would have the following negative consequences for you and our society: ..."
"No, you can't do this, because it would have the following negative consequences for you and our society: ..."
"No, you can't do this, because it would have the following negative consequences for you and our society: ..."
"No, you can't do this, because it would have the following negative consequences for you and our society: ..."
"No, you can't do this, because it would have the following negative consequences for you and our society: ..."
"No, you can't do this, because it would have the following negative consequences for you and our society: ..."

Every day. Every day. Every day. Every day. Every day. Every day. Every day. Every day. Every day. ...

You too will reach a point where you stop arguing and use the appeal-to-authority.
"Just do it because I said so."

YOU try implementing agricultural standards by arguing with an illiterate peasant who has never left the village and knows nothing about crop-rotation, resource-management or climate.
YOU try implementing societal standards by arguing with someone who has no concepts of law, politics, genetics, societal contracts, psychology...

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Did religion ever bring anything to mankind? [View all] Yorktown Mar 2015 OP

Two possible responses you will get. Cartoonist Mar 2015 #1

Well, in a 'religion' forum, I just asked the root question. Yorktown Mar 2015 #3

Your OP is sound Cartoonist Mar 2015 #11

The OP is a series of unsupported assertions tossed out as an ill-conceived hypothesis. LTX Mar 2015 #143

Unsupported Assertions? Cartoonist Mar 2015 #144

One would hope that someone challenging the efficacy of religion LTX Mar 2015 #145

What are you trying to say? Cartoonist Mar 2015 #146

See my posts 139, 141, and 142, LTX Mar 2015 #147

Nothing there. Cartoonist Mar 2015 #148

Which is apparently behind a curtain and not addressing the points brought up by LTX. cbayer Mar 2015 #149

Empty points don't encourage discussion. Cartoonist Mar 2015 #150

Not addressing LTX point? How about addressing the OP? Yorktown Mar 2015 #166

That's certainly a substantive response. LTX Mar 2015 #151

Despite your ego Cartoonist Mar 2015 #152

Since you seem determined not to actually read the posts LTX Mar 2015 #154

Paragraph 2 has been discussed here before Cartoonist Mar 2015 #158

Weak sauce, Cartoonist. You need to up your game. n/t LTX Mar 2015 #159

You have yet to bring yours. Cartoonist Mar 2015 #160

This message was self-deleted by its author Yorktown Mar 2015 #167

This message was self-deleted by its author Yorktown Mar 2015 #164

Attacking the OP does not answer its question Yorktown Mar 2015 #165

You provided two answers yourself. LTX Mar 2015 #170

Interesting answer Yorktown Mar 2015 #172

What are the unsupported assertions, btw? Yorktown Apr 2015 #180

That kind of sucks for those of us who wish to make moral claims but... stone space Mar 2015 #2

That's why I used the 'overwhelming' qualifier Yorktown Mar 2015 #5

Not too long ago, the overwelming majority opposed gay marriage. stone space Mar 2015 #6

Agreed. Which proves my point Yorktown Mar 2015 #9

It proves no such thing. stone space Mar 2015 #12

Says who? The majority. Yorktown Mar 2015 #15

I am. stone space Mar 2015 #16

Oh, OK. You define morality. Yorktown Mar 2015 #20

In the end, we all have to think for ourselves, don't we? stone space Mar 2015 #23

Majority is one major source of morality Yorktown Mar 2015 #26

My support for gay marriage has nothing to do with other species. stone space Mar 2015 #28

It was a parallel Yorktown Mar 2015 #30

But what does that have to do with humans? Or with marriage? stone space Mar 2015 #31

I don't see where you are going Yorktown Mar 2015 #32

I'm not really going anywhere with it. stone space Mar 2015 #34

I understand, but the morality of society is majority rule. Yorktown Mar 2015 #35

No. Being in the minority is a fairly common experience for me. stone space Mar 2015 #37

You are straying too far in moral ontology Yorktown Mar 2015 #40

I don't subscribe to moral defeatism. (nt) stone space Mar 2015 #44

Me neither. nt. Yorktown Mar 2015 #46

I hate to break this to you okasha Mar 2015 #88

You still don't get the paradox, do you? skepticscott Mar 2015 #62

You could easily get the answer bvf Mar 2015 #21

You've confused "function" with "marketing". AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #22

Hannibal Lecter would agree with you. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #54

Yes: Codification of social norms, expansion of technology, literature, more... NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #4

Art & Science were not brought by religion Yorktown Mar 2015 #7

You asked for contributions. I've listed a few. NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #10

Quite, but your examples are not contributions of religion itself. Yorktown Mar 2015 #13

Fair enough. But are you limiting the question to the major religions, western religions? NYC_SKP Mar 2015 #14

Agreed, but Yorktown Mar 2015 #17

No. bvf Mar 2015 #8

You made a valid theological point Yorktown Mar 2015 #18

Again, agreed. bvf Mar 2015 #19

Might have contributed to our survival at one point as a means of storytelling and copyerror control AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #24

Same thing for circumcision Yorktown Mar 2015 #29

Likely true. AtheistCrusader Mar 2015 #66

Or require circumcisions be performed at adult age. Yorktown Mar 2015 #67

harry potter has seven books, that other guy only has half of one :-) nt msongs Mar 2015 #25

With Harry, Hermione and Ron as the three Wise Men? Yorktown Mar 2015 #27

To be fair, paper and pens were much scarcer then. merrily Mar 2015 #33

I don't much care if it ever did any good or ever will. I do care merrily Mar 2015 #36

I worry religion might bring WWIII, for the reason you stated. Yorktown Mar 2015 #38

Not sure why total separation of church and state won't fix what you say is the problem. merrily Mar 2015 #39

separation of church and state is in the cards Yorktown Mar 2015 #42

So, no more stonings in Saudi Arabia soon? merrily Mar 2015 #43

Two subtle caveats. Yorktown Mar 2015 #45

Religion brought us the Plowshares Movement stone space Mar 2015 #41

well then religion brought us ISIS too. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #81

It is possible to regard religious language as expressing non-negotiable ideas struggle4progress Mar 2015 #47

Religions don't seem to have non-negotiable ideas Yorktown Mar 2015 #48

"Christianity" and "Islam" are abstract words, and different people use the words in different ways struggle4progress Mar 2015 #49

What you wrote means religions are empty shells. Yorktown Mar 2015 #50

"Christianity" has a definite meaning to me; but "Islam" a considerably less definite meaning struggle4progress Mar 2015 #91

If the 'meaningy' of 'holy' books vary so much, they have no intrinsic value Yorktown Mar 2015 #92

It's quite common for special uses of language to develop, which have a clear meaning struggle4progress Mar 2015 #99

But languages do not make claims to universal Truth Yorktown Mar 2015 #102

Claims of approaches to universal truth are not necessary harmful, and struggle4progress Mar 2015 #111

"A Platonist on weekdays, and a Formalist on Sunday." (nt) stone space Mar 2015 #114

Excellent! struggle4progress Mar 2015 #119

Claim to universal truth can only be validated by proof Yorktown Mar 2015 #118

That's simply silly. okasha Mar 2015 #117

Shakespeare made no claim to universal, eternal value. Yorktown Mar 2015 #120

Irrelevant. okasha Mar 2015 #123

you use words so loosely your statements don't carry weight Yorktown Mar 2015 #125

Nothing loose about it. okasha Mar 2015 #169

Yea, but LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #103

"People themselves have their own non-negotiable ideas" Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #55

It seems like you are describing morals or societal norms. Chemisse Mar 2015 #153

I'm an atheist, but I think that religion has upsides. DetlefK Mar 2015 #51

Now, that was a brilliant answer Yorktown Mar 2015 #53

So hope phil89 Mar 2015 #86

It was sarcasm. nt. Yorktown Mar 2015 #94

well religion has utility - Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #56

Imagine arguing with 10 kids each day. DetlefK Mar 2015 #58

I read this as bvf Mar 2015 #64

Maybe unapproachable authority-figures are better in a religion. DetlefK Mar 2015 #65

A good point well made. The sugar daddy in the sky kills Democracy. Yorktown Mar 2015 #68

Prayers = Letters to Santa. bvf Mar 2015 #70

Religion has utility? Back to the OP: what utility exactly? Yorktown Mar 2015 #69

controlling people, keeping them complacent, Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #79

Was Mamie Till an idiot? BeyondGeography Mar 2015 #52

One can be wrong about something and not be an idiot. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #57

The OP is proof of that, yes BeyondGeography Mar 2015 #59

You seem a bit upset about the op. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #60

I'm upset that the Rangers shat the bed against the Kings the other night BeyondGeography Mar 2015 #61

I guess it must have "hit a nerve." n/t trotsky Mar 2015 #63

This message was self-deleted by its author cbayer Mar 2015 #71

I know who you are and I'm not playing. cbayer Mar 2015 #72

But you really want to, don't you? bvf Mar 2015 #74

Your selfless act is appreciated by all. cleanhippie Mar 2015 #75

I agree it is a game and I agree with your view. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #78

Wow! Just wow. Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #80

Must be the "being the change you want to see" we always hear about. cleanhippie Mar 2015 #84

A conspiracy prevents you from justifying religion? Yorktown Mar 2015 #93

Brings people closer to the almighty. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #95

What is the almighty? Yorktown Mar 2015 #100

That is a question for the ages. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #101

In other words, it can be anything to anyone Yorktown Mar 2015 #104

That is not exactly true. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #105

Oh! Most people can't agree on what God is? What a surprise! Yorktown Mar 2015 #106

Deja Vu! The smiley. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #107

Can't think anything else about God than ROFL Yorktown Mar 2015 #108

Of course. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #109

We all know you're the person who thinks penguins are mammals okasha Mar 2015 #96

LOL. OK, I misremembered one of the trick P6 questions. Yorktown Mar 2015 #98

One thing religion definitely brought humans... trotsky Mar 2015 #73

+1000. n/t. bvf Mar 2015 #76

excellent analysis Skittles Mar 2015 #113

That might be my biggest beef with religion sammythecat Mar 2015 #174

I've been asking that question for years. Faux pas Mar 2015 #77

I'm just glad you don't have an axe to grind Android3.14 Mar 2015 #82

Wondering if captured n passed on knowledge via education on point Mar 2015 #83

Fire rock Mar 2015 #85

There is some beauty in it. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #87

"not to mention denominational dollars" Warren Stupidity Mar 2015 #89

All true, but the inspiration for this work was the Christ story. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #90

Almost all art of the time was commissioned work. okasha Mar 2015 #97

Don't examine that sponsorship too closely. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #110

Of course there was an alignment of wealth with the power of the Church. okasha Mar 2015 #115

I wasn't familiar prior to your post. It would have been interesting to see the completed work. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #116

Oh, yes. okasha Mar 2015 #122

On balance... deathrind Mar 2015 #112

Again, what did religion bring that was not already available? Yorktown Mar 2015 #121

Nothing deathrind Mar 2015 #129

One can disagree with religion, Maedhros Mar 2015 #124

Religion influenced civilization without bringing demonstrable good. Yorktown Mar 2015 #126

Modal music; really great Trappist beer... LuvLoogie Mar 2015 #127

So, religion's contribution was to inspire Art and beer making? Yorktown Mar 2015 #128

It does that as well. The printed word comes to mind as well. LuvLoogie Mar 2015 #130

Clearly, religions that survived customerserviceguy Mar 2015 #131

True. Religions were good tools of political power. Yorktown Mar 2015 #132

Religion basically boils down to a way for certain groups of people to control/exploit other people Arugula Latte Apr 2015 #183

Staunch anti-theist though I may be, I have never identified with this sentiment. Act_of_Reparation Mar 2015 #133

You are not showing religion ever brought anything Yorktown Mar 2015 #134

Art is more than just crafts and techniques LostOne4Ever Mar 2015 #135

True, religion inspired Art as a theme. That's not an input. Yorktown Mar 2015 #136

Link would disagree... LostOne4Ever Mar 2015 #137

True. But Link is like God, he doesn't exist. :) Yorktown Mar 2015 #140

It has been an effective vehicle for the global dissemination of Western European culture. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #138

I'll commit blasphemy and disagree with Bertrand Russell Yorktown Mar 2015 #163

Tough customer. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #168

"All these basic rules exist in all societies, even in those which did not invent gods." LTX Mar 2015 #139

"Studies have been made to try to correlate religious belief and levels of crime LTX Mar 2015 #141

How do they know that religion was a deterrent to criminal acts? Chemisse Mar 2015 #155

A very good question. LTX Mar 2015 #156

Those studies seem so nebulous that it seems disingenuous to use them as evidence of anything. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #157

I agree that correlation is generally a nebulous proposition. LTX Mar 2015 #161

When you start talking about tautology, my eyes tend to glaze over. LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #162

OK: the correlation religion and crime is inconclusive at best Yorktown Mar 2015 #171

"In Antiquity, religions pinned events on imaginary beings (from Thor to Allah), LTX Mar 2015 #142

What is the nuance between explanation and cognitive illusion? Yorktown Mar 2015 #173

Placebo and an inspiration for the Arts summarizes the posts Yorktown Apr 2015 #175

Really? You didn't even respond to my example. stone space Apr 2015 #176

You linked to a very long video Yorktown Apr 2015 #178

You had me going until: jonno99 Apr 2015 #177

+1 cbayer Apr 2015 #182

Whatever religion 'contributed' in the positive sense, was probably before AtheistCrusader Apr 2015 #179

From your OP: "By all means, I do not have an axe to grind against religions." LTX Apr 2015 #188

The music of Bach, the poetry thucythucy Apr 2015 #181

Liberation movements were often Marxist, i.e. non religious Yorktown Apr 2015 #184

True, but liberation movements were also thucythucy Apr 2015 #185

You make some good points with which I still disagree Yorktown Apr 2015 #186

Each of these points can be disputed thucythucy Apr 2015 #187