Republican Senators Spill The Beans! Obama's Deal on Payroll Tax Cut Threatens Social Security!

[Better Believe It]

This is more than enough reason for members of Congress to vote down the whole stinking deal! BBI

Republicans Casually Agree They’ll Never Allow Payroll Tax Cut to Rise Again
By: David Dayen
December 8, 2010

Nancy Altman called the payroll tax cut in the Obama/McConnell deal the end of Social Security. In her view, the American political system circa 2010 doesn’t let taxes go back up, and so Social Security will face a revenue crisis faster with a reduced payroll tax. The money will come out of general revenue to pay for that payroll tax holiday, but that just makes Social Security more dependent on general revenue – and more vulnerable. That this is all coming at a time when knives have been unsheathed and are ready to hack away at Social Security makes it all the more dangerous.

Ryan Grim asked the exact right questions, and Republicans were unusually blunt with him.

Tax Cut Deal A Hidden Threat To Social Security
By Ryan Grim
December 8, 2010

Republicans acknowledged that the expiration of the tax holiday will be treated as a tax increase. “Once something like this goes into place, a year from now, when it expires, it’ll be portrayed as a tax increase,” said Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.). “So in a body like Congress, precedents matter and this is setting a precedent. I think that certainly is going to create some problems down the road if it passes.”

Given that Congress, under Democratic control, can’t gather itself to let tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans expire, members of both parties are convinced that letting the payroll tax rate revert back to its current spot will be near impossible.

“Once you bring a rate down, if it goes back up, people will feel that. They’ll feel their paycheck being less and that argument” — that letting it expire amounts to a tax hike — “eventually is bound to be made,” said Sen. Mike Johanns (R-Neb.).

“There’s always a tendency to continue those things… Once something comes in, it’s very difficult to change it,” said Sen. George Voinovich (R-Ohio.) He then volunteered, without prompting, that “It would be detrimental to the Social Security system, especially when it’s in bad shape.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/08/tax-cut-deal-a-hidden-thr_n_793983.html

Republicans are basically telling you their strategy. They will call the expiration of the payroll tax cut an increase. They will use the reduction in revenue to claim that Social Security is in bigger financial trouble than it is. They will try to stop the money from getting restored.

This is a very risky experiment. No President has ever cut payroll taxes, even temporarily, in the history of the program.

To quote Franklin Roosevelt:

“We put those pay roll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program. Those taxes aren’t a matter of economics, they’re straight politics,” FDR told a Treasury official in 1941.

Read the full article at:

http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/12/08/republicans-casually-agree-theyll-never-allow-payroll-tax-cut-to-rise-again/


--------------------------------------------


Tax Cut Deal A Hidden Threat To Social Security
By Ryan Grim
December 8, 2010


The tax cut deal that President Obama struck with congressional Republicans contains a provision that could ultimately be the undoing of Social Security, say Senate Democrats and backers of the old-age and disability program.

Obama, as part of the Democratic package, secured a roughly 30 percent cut in the payroll tax, from 6.2 to 4.2 percent. Allowing it to expire in a year will mean that workers will see a nearly 50 percent jump in payroll taxes as the rate reverts back -- an event that will surely be described as a tax hike. The cut is estimated to cost $120 billion per year.

Democrats have never allowed the rate to be cut, even temporarily, in the history of the program, because payroll taxes feed the Social Security trust fund and create the political base of support for the program, said Nancy Altman, author of "The Battle For Social Security", a history of the program, and head of the advocacy group Social Security Works. Republicans have won a long-sought victory, even as President Obama hails it as a win for his party.

Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.), who chairs the Senate Subcommittee On Retirement and Aging, said she's concerned that the payroll cut will weaken Social Security and leave it vulnerable. "I'm concerned this could be the beginning of the slippery slope to getting rid of the payroll tax and cause a way of getting rid of Social Security as a public issue in the way of heading to privatization," she said. "I know it's been recommended by several economists, but this is really big. My question is, shouldn't this be viewed in a more shock wave kind of way?"

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.), co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, echoed Mikulski's concern. "On the surface, the payroll tax reduction of two percent is attractive, but when you get past the surface, it's deeply disturbing. Because what it means is we'll replace the loss of money from Social Security with general fund money, but in the past Social Security has been raided to help fund general fund programs. So how long will it be before somebody says Social Security is not sustainable and we need to cut the program?" he said. "I'm afraid we are feeding into a larger narrative that goes toward eliminating Social Security."

Stripping Social Security of payroll tax revenue will make the program appear less viable in projections, which currently gauge that it can pay full benefits until 2037 and roughly four-fifth of benefits over the next 50 years. That vulnerability can then be exploited.

The payroll tax cut that Democrats have resisted for decades is being pushed through as part of a deal moving like a Toyota dump truck with the gas pedal stuck. "I haven't even had a chance to consider that potential," said Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.), when asked about the effect of the payroll cut on Social Security.

Read the full article at:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/08/tax-cut-deal-a-hidden-thr_n_793983.html

[CountAllVotes]

1. "I haven't even had a chance to consider that potential,"

BULL FUCKING SHIT!

:grr: :nuke:

Time to get those phones a ringin' folks!

:dem: :kick:

[sasha031]

3. How I wish Ted Kennedy was still here

[Foo Fighter]

20. Add Wellstone to the mix and we, the people, would actually have

some representation in DC. Wellstone would have filibustered SO many of the crap bills that have passed since he's been gone. It would really be a different country if he were still there. Proof positive that one person truly can make a difference.

Sadly, I don't think I'll ever see another Paul Wellstone in my lifetime.

[sasha031]

26. I wish I followed him more,

I never paid close attention until 2000, have read wonderful things about him though.
Read all Al Franken books, he spoke heroically about this beautiful man.:)

In my state we always had Ted.

[defendandprotect]

108. I'm sure none of us will see another Wellstone in our time ....

imo, we've had 50 plus years of right wing political violence to

ensure that -- in fact they kill liberal leadership now before it

even has a chance to arise!!

[Hannah Bell]

52. Kennedy *was* there when the Reagan deal that cracked SS was made. He

abstained from voting yes or no so as not to have to be on record for either side.

So I doubt it would make any difference if he were here now.

[defendandprotect]

105. Can you remind us of some of the details of that "cracking" .....

Embarrased to say that a lot of what happened at that time isn't clear

to me --

Re Ted Kennedy -- don't think he was ever quite what JFK or RFK were --

however, my personal opinion is that he was also subjected to at least one

threat on his life -- and a lot of threats and intimidation by right wing.

[former9thward]

158. Congress raised SS age from 65 to 67 in 1983.

I assume that is the "cracking" the poster refers to.

[Hannah Bell]

161. the reagan-greenspan commission + congressional vote that:

1. jacked up SS rates to produce an ever-rising surplus over need & an ever-growing trust fund (= ever-growing source of revenue for the general fund)

2. started taxing social security benefits

3. increased the age to collect full benefits for the boomers (65 to 67, gradually)

4. other stuff...

ted & some of the other liberal lights abstained.

most D's & R's voted for the package.

a small minority of paleo-pubs voted against it. ironically. who knows their reasons; SS *did* need a tax hike, but nothing like what it got. They may have wanted to sink SS completely.

[Liberalynn]

74. yeah maybe then he could kick his

protege's ass for ever adding/and or agreeing to add this piece of thievery to the bill.

[defendandprotect]

106. Always loved to hear Ted's voice ringing out giving them hell.....

though last years after Reagan administration, didn't seem to be the

same. I certainly thing there was at least one rw threat on his life

immediately after the coup on JFK -- and certainly question Chappaquiddick

now and a possible involvement in it by Nixon and the Plumbers.



:)

[704wipes]

149. I think Ted would ask to have the dog back

before Barrack bargained it away...

[Autumn]

4. I called him today

he says he is dead set against it.

[Better Believe It]

5. Yes indeed. And alert our friends and political associates on this poison pill.

Quickly!

[jtown1123]

165. Here's a Legislative Hotline against the payroll tax holiday: 1 800 998 0180

Thanks!

[Autumn]

2. That's their plan

:dem: hostage my ass.

[spanone]

6. No President has ever cut payroll taxes, even temporarily, in the history of the program

doesn't sound like a good idea

[Better Believe It]

10. And there is a good reason for that. Could President Obama really be that naive or incompetent or

does he really support cuts in Social Security and other "entitlements"?

In any case, members of Congress should reject President Obama's plan to cut the Social Security payroll tax.

[RKP5637]

29. It's part of his plan. He's not that naive. We don't need

much more proof than what we see now. None are going to raise the payroll taxes in two years. It's a fantasy.

[Liberalynn]

75. so is the notion that the Repuke check writers will every pay back the theft

from the general fund. That's a fantasy too and Obama knows it.

[molly77]

86. It has to play out.

The US govt. has to finish the job. To totally bring the country down.Isn't it kinda' apparent? Billions for a war that WE have yet to hear a definitive explanation for being in , in the first place. Bribing drug lords with millions and no money for the People who are propping the whole sorry mess up with taxes. You know the clintons and bushes are sitting around laughing their asses off.Mission Accomplished.

[shanti]

101. banana republic

is what we are becoming. big changes, painful changes.

[defendandprotect]

116. They've been destroying America since the

coup on JFK --

Tremendous destruction wrought upon cities -- especially cities and states

which opposed GOP/Repug fascist rule --

And last attacks on labor now occuring with attacks on public schools and

teacher's unions --

How have we let this go on for two years?

Were we so estopped by the alibing here and the mumbling about chess games and

pink ponies?

Maybe the nation needed these two years to wake up, I don't know -- but it's

a shame this farce has gone on so long.

Another thing I don't understand is where were the liberal Democrats in warning

us? Why have none of them come forward to challenge Obama?

Either we are now going to be in a post-Democratic Party era -- or we are going

to find a way to take this party back. I don't know which it is going to be --

but obviously the corporate-wing/DLC has to be dumped.

And, Obama has to announce he is stepping down in 2012.

[defendandprotect]

115. The last two years have been a disaster -- what of the next two?

Think the funniest is that Homeland Security pushes an "underwear" bomber

and the population bows down before Chertoff's airport scanners!!

And, evidently, Chertoff's company got government contracts from the

STIMULUS money!!

The rest is too sad to even joke about -- !!

[RKP5637]

30. dupe

[Jackpine Radical]

90. I think he supports the cuts.

He was talking vaguely but glowingly about private retirement accounts very early on.I can't remember whether it was in the campaign or maybe the SOTU speech.

[femrap]

104. Whatever he says, it's best to

assume it's a lie.

And since your avatar is Feingold....WTF was his vote this past weekend WITH the repugnants???? Both he and Harkin as well as the 2 Dems from WVa were with the repugs when voting about the split over folks making over $250K and over $1M per year.

I haven't seen a damn thing about this on DU. The votes were this past Saturday....when everyone was out shopping for Xmas trees, etc.

Is Feingold getting ready to be a Corporate c*cksucker or what???? I was in shock.

I guess I just should just chalk it up to the fact that we're no longer a democracy and that I need to learn Spanish so I can move to Bolivia.

I hope you can shed some light on my concerns.

[Jackpine Radical]

163. My understanding is that Feingold wanted all the tax cuts to expire

because they were unfunded and he saw them as a GOP trap.

If he were positioning himself for a corporate career, I don't think that one vote would do it in any case.

It's like when he voted against the bank regulatory reform bill because he didn't think it went far enough, that it was just a sham. Which it obviously is.

[femrap]

167. Thanks for the explanation.....

It didn't make any sense to me...it does now.

[defendandprotect]

114. Believe what you've seen and forget what he's said .....

Really don't see how we're going to get thru another two years of

this -- it's like having a Republican back in the White House!!

[OHdem10]

7. Of course it is. The Republicans have been wanting to do

this for years. In January, they are going to relieve
the employer of paying their percentage equivalent of the
payroll tax. Nothing going to SS. Republicans best dream.
The FDR NEW DEAL IS GOING ON THE ASH HEAP of HISTORY.

Obama will be the Democrat who destroyed the Safety Net
for the Republicans.

No wonder Fox has been ooh and ahhing so positively over
Obama.

[shanti]

13. i feel sick

never in my wildest dreams would i have suspected obama of being part of the gutting of our SS, never! but that's exactly what's happening :(

[DJ13]

21. never in my wildest dreams would i have suspected obama of being part of the gutting SS

As soon as he ignored Congress voting down a deficit commission and authorized one on his own I figured he was up to something.

Then when I saw that he personally picked Simpson and Bowles to head it, it was obvious what his intentions are.

I have to hand it to the PTB that quietly pushed him into office, they chose the perfect person to destroy the remnants of FDR's New Deal, someone from FDR's own party who can sweet talk you and sound so sincere ..... while he's knifing you in the back.

He's perfect in that role.

[defendandprotect]

119. +1 --- keep in mind ....

what Justice Thurgood Marshall told us when he was retiring from the SC and

journalists were asking him if Poppy Bush would honor his seat as a "black"

seat ....

Marshall said:

"It's not the color of a snake that is important --

It's whether or not it bites" --

And I would caution us all that it also includes gender --

Hillary is also part of DLC leadership --

And, remember Liebermann and how thrilled the nation was to see someone of the

Jewish faith make it? Yikes!!

We have to know more about the backgrounds of these people -- who they are taking

money from. Obama was very slick at that -- I don't think he really began to

pile up corporate money until he had taken in all the money he could from individuals --

THEN he announced he'd take corporate money!!!

There's also some discussion on the internet of Obama's family -- and he -- having

CIA connections.

What we might say is that after '63, they weren't going to have their efforts reversed?


:)

[shanti]

14. duplicate post

self-delete

[RKP5637]

17. Yep, and he's gushing over how the R's think he's so bipartisan, while the R's

play the game to their benefit all the way to the bank over and over again.

[earthboundmisfit]

34. They've wanted to get rid of it since it began

Robert Reich said it well in this article, 09/26/2010:
Republican Economics As Social Darwinism

~snip~

"Boehner and other Republicans would even like to roll back the New Deal and get rid of Barack Obama’s smaller deal health-care law. The issue isn’t just economic. We’re back to tough love. The basic idea is force people to live with the consequences of whatever happens to them.

In the late 19th century it was called Social Darwinism. Only the fittest should survive, and any effort to save the less fit will undermine the moral fiber of society.

Republicans have wanted to destroy Social Security since it was invented in 1935 by my predecessor as labor secretary, the great Frances Perkins. Remember George W. Bush’s proposal to privatize it? Had America agreed with him, millions of retirees would have been impoverished in 2008 when the stock market imploded."

~snip~
(more at link: http://www.dailymarkets.com/economy/2010/09/26/republican-economics-as-social-darwinism)

[shanti]

100. people will die

plain and simple, if SS is gutted. perhaps that's what they want, not a pleasant picture...

[defendandprotect]

134. Elites will be bringing back child labor as fast as they can....

what are our chances of finding another FDR -- ???

[StarsInHerHair]

156. I've said that 4 yrs under a different name here, there are only 2 or 3 laws

against child labor in this nation, but people didn't believe me. It is why the billionaires are attacking public education; next is getting rid of minimum wage too, can't have a kid making minimum-it's a KID, that'll cost too much, it's anti-business:sarcasm: My other computer went down, so I am this now and not KakistocrayHater, which means hating a rule by the evil. It isn't the rich per se, but many of them, but the TP certainly aren't rich.

[defendandprotect]

170. Agree -- and how long did GOP deny they were after Social Security .. and now Obama after it--!!

and Obama/Duncan destroying public education and throwing our tax dollars into

charter schools -- where in the hell did he get the right to do anything like that?

Or to give our tax dollars to "faith-based" religions?

The GOP has already rewarded the fast food industry re teen labor in subsiding it for

them -- and permitting them to pay lower salaries because of the need to train them!

PLUS, they've had these kids not only serving food, but also cleaning the place --

including the JOHNS!

You can see what a lack of unions does to employees -- most of them standing all day on

their feet with no chairs of stools to be seen. Check out clerks and department store

clerks used to have a way to rest for a few moments -- now they have to clean or repeatedly

haul merchandise from one side of the floor to the other -- dusting in between!!



Really like your username: "StarsInHerHair" .... and somehow it seems familiar -- ???

:)

[snot]

8. K&R'd

[Marr]

9. But it's covered with slightest fig leaf-- enough to allow denial.

Obama is a trojan horse.

[davidwparker]

118. +1

And he needs to be watched going forward. And, he needs to be removed with a primary.

[defendandprotect]

136. Agree ....

Now ... what do we do about it --?

[Catherina]

11. Republicans gloating and happy. Same with Reagan Democrats. What a tragedy for us. n/t

[Better Believe It]

16. Don't give up. The Obama/Republican tax cut deal can still be voted down.

[Catherina]

19. It could, maybe but Congress butters its bread too. I'm past hoping anymore

I'm at the point where I want all the bums thrown out. Randomly picking the first 100 people in the phonebook to fill their seats would give us better results.

You could be right. He handled this in such an insulting manner to Congress that they could be angry enough to find the courage to vote it down.

[Faryn Balyncd]

171. .

:kick:

[RKP5637]

24. This is a country that will have to fall beyond the depths of the great

depression before it wakes up, but I have my doubts anymore if it will ever get back to what it once was. I think what we will end up with is a vast wasteland with a feudal system. And on the global scene it will be way down the list.

[Angry Dragon]

12. I just love these back alley deals that Obama does

what happened to all the transparency he promised??

Why do I feel like I have all these knives sticking in my back for the last two years??

[defendandprotect]

128. That's something that needs a lot more discussion .....

Over decades right wing has been trying to move legislation/deal making

any discussion/debate into back rooms -- first into back rooms in Congress --

but eventually now we're up to the point where Obama defeated MEDICARE FOR ALL

by making back room deals with Big Pharma -- to block Medicare negotiation on

drug prices -- and with private health care industry in his promise to keep

single-payer/PO "off the table."

But, few commentators are talking about this trend as a way to confuse the public

and avoid Congress --

Later, Rahm "crowed" about what they had done for business -- especially in preserving

the PRIVATE health care industry!!*



We also see that it is the FED and not our Congress which now sets economic policy --

and they've been working on destabilizing labor rather than supporting it --

not doing what's necessary to create jobs. Our Economic Policy is something that should

be debated and discussed in Congress by the people we elect -- and can un-elect -- not

a private bank!!


:)




* Here it is --


Rahm .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!

Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:03 AM

Here is the quote: ”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care

preserved the private delivery system;

the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...

[Better Believe It]

15. A safe prediction. The Republican controlled House won't restore the Social Security payroll tax.

Any questions?

No?

Case Closed.

The Obama/Republican tax cut deal should be voted down.

[BlueCheese]

18. I agree...

But do they have to? Or is the cut in payroll taxes sunseted and thus temporary, like the <ahem> Bush tax cuts?

[Better Believe It]

23. We don't know. The language of the Obama/Republican tax cut proposal is still a secret.

Senators are complaining about that.

Even if it is "sunset", Republicans will certainly introduce legislation in the House and Senate to "not increase the payroll tax" and it will probably pass before January 2012, in an election year.

And other legislative proposals to cut Social Security benefits will have probably been passed first.

[Lord Magus]

47. So what?

Such legislation, even if it were to pass, would be vetoed. And remember, Repugs will still be the minority in the Senate.

[Jackpine Radical]

91. Don't bet on it.

Obama wants it. No veto.

[Liberalynn]

142. By Who?

Their new beloved buddy Obama? He won't be able to whip his pen out fast enough to sign the end of SS into law. He agrees with them. He appointed the commission. He suports the Payroll Holiday. He's talking about private accounts just like Bush.

How much clearer does it have to get to the enablers that he has abandoned the legacy of FDR and is now in all but the dishonest letter behind his name one of the PUKES? I wish that he would just be honest enough to admit it. Maybe he could run on their ticket and we can find someone else who will stand up for our side, instead of fighting against it.

[defendandprotect]

137. We don't know? We know what Obama has been doing for two years ....

we do know --

[BzaDem]

28. It will be reinstated even without a vote by the Republican House. No vote at all implies it gets

reinstated.

[Liberalynn]

146. They will control the checkbook

all they have to do is refuse to right the check.

[Faryn Balyncd]

22. K&R

:hi:



:kick:

[reformist2]

25. The devil is in the details, isn't it!

And this devil is downright EVIL.

[BzaDem]

27. They won't have to "let" it go up -- it will go up automatically. The current tax cuts are being

extended now solely because of the economy's horrible condition. When the economy gets better, there will be no reason to not let them all expire.

[RC]

37. The bad economy is the best reason to let the tax cuts expire.

This country is in debt up to our eye balls. This country needs that revenue to function.

[BzaDem]

39. Um, no. A bad economy is a reason to INCREASE deficits, not to decrease them.

You decrease deficits in a good economy and you increase deficits in a bad economy.

[defendandprotect]

138. You mean the tax cuts for the rich - right? Yes. . . they should expire....

Actually, if we don't let them expire we're going to have to borrow

most of it from China and Japan -- again!!

What sense could that possibly make?

[jannyk]

78. "When the economy gets better, there will be no reason to not let them all expire."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Jackpine Radical]

92. The tax cuts on the rich won't help the economy.

The tax increases on the poor probably won't do much good for the economy either.

[defendandprotect]

140. Of course they would -- if we let the tax cuts for rich ride. we have to borrow to pay for them..!

[Marr]

139. That's like saying, "I'm only hitting you because you're bleeding".

"I'll stop hitting you as soon as you stop bleeding".

The economy is not a weather pattern, and it's not going to get better without solid policies designed to make it do so. These tax cuts will lead to more and more economic problems.

Just out of curiosity... are you in fact arguing that tax policy has nothing to do with economic recovery, or are you now endorsing the conservative notion that tax cuts pay for themselves and make the economy boom?

[Hello_Kitty]

148. No reason except Republicans screaming "tax increase!"

[Unvanguard]

31. I don't know if that's generally true of tax credits used in stimulus packages.

A decrease for one year is not the same as a decrease for five.

[me b zola]

32. Recommeded

:grr:

[Individualist]

33. K&R

[glitch]

35. K & R nt

[leftstreet]

36. K&R

[donco6]

38. But . . . but . . . it's not going to cost ANYTHING!

Right? That's what all those other threads said. We can cut SS payroll tax and have NO IMPACT on Social Security!

That's what they said. . . I don't understand . . . they were . . . Lying?

[aquart]

41. Self-deceiving.

[Jackpine Radical]

144. I didn't see any of these threads.

Is anybody actually that delusional?

I have this business partner in Nigeria I'd like to talk to them about…

[aquart]

40. Didn't need them to tell me that.

[Oilwellian]

42. This has been discussed for months

Particularly after we saw Obama's chosen Cat Food Commission. This payroll tax "holiday" is the oligarchs stealth horse to end our social safety net. They would love nothing more than to take that 6% of our salary and force us to rely on them for our retirement security. Who will be the first to trust Goldman Sachs to do that?

[laughingliberal]

43. It's pretty obvious that's part of the plan.

K&R

[Faryn Balyncd]

44. Great post....The RW enemies of SS have been pushing for a "payroll tax holiday" for years....

...and now they think we are so short sighted that we will accept this as a "concession" to us!!

[amborin]

45. K&R

[somone]

46. The most evil legislation ever. Kill It Dead.

[CountAllVotes]

67. that is not the hope and "change" I voted for

Great picture and makes the point however. No spare change around here for this bullsh*t!

:kick:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

48. yup it's their program called "Starve the Beast" kill the New Deal...been in play for over 30 yrs...

[defendandprotect]

141. +1000%

[tomm2thumbs]

49. eye-opening and a humiliating defeat for Obama's 'negotiating' skills to let it happen

That bubble of his has certainly gotten thick and obscured the view of what is going on in America

[jtown1123]

56. PLEASE contact your Dem Reps. Today! Many do not realize how bad this is. See link below:

http://capwiz.com/ncpssm2/issues/alert/?alertid=20648111

[CountAllVotes]

66. thanks for the link, and ATTN: everyone!!!

This link takes you to a page where you can email your Senators and your Representative in Congress.

ATTN: EVERYONE OUT THERE ... Please fill this out and hit send to get your message to the above to stop this travesty before it happens!

:kick: & recommend!!!!!

[shanti]

103. DONE!

:kick:

[laughingliberal]

109. Done. nt

[Poboy]

110. This needs to be an OP for more exposure, imo.

[defendandprotect]

143. done --

plus telephone calls today -- more tomorrow, I hope --

[defendandprotect]

145. Agree -- make this a separate OP ....

:)

[Liberalynn]

151. Already done

with the Senators. My House Member is a right wing puke ass, so he would just hang up.

[burrowowl]

50. Are

the 'Murican' people ever going to wake before it is too late? It may be already too late.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dreamnightwind]

53. K & R

I've been waiting to see exactly how they'd move on Social Security. It looked to me like Obama was part of the plan. Sad to say that it looks even more like that now.

[Ticonderoga]

82. Yeah but Larry Summers PROMISED us

another great recession if the Tax Bill doesn't become law. *Rolls eyes". Who is really behind that curtain Toto?

[laughingliberal]

111. +1000 nt

[TheKentuckian]

54. Never fall for "starve the pig" bullshit. Never. There is no winning or even treading water.

[Better Believe It]

55. This is the real poison pill in the tax cut bill.

[olegramps]

57. I never dreamed that Obama would sell us out like he has.

Yes, I certain amount of blame belongs to Congress, but I still think that Obama has proven to be a very ineffective leader. The cuts on Social Security are not the way to go. It plays directly into the enemy's hand along with the reduction of inheritance taxes. This is the best Christmas present that he could have given the Republicans. It is little wonder that so many Democrats regard Obama as a total flop. It is becoming increasingly difficult to support him.If this continues I don't see how he will ever be able to attract the Independent vote that is critical. His base may very well stay with him, but it is that very important Independent vote that determines elections.

[jtown1123]

59. The fact that he does not acknowledge this is a historical detrimental change to the program

signals one of two things. 1. He is completely clueless about Social Security and the politics around it. 2. He dislikes the program and would like to see it means tested or privatized in the near future.

[SammyWinstonJack]

80. #2 I would bet.

x(

[defendandprotect]

153. Please ... Obama is NOT an "ineffective" leader ... he's a highly successful leader...

for the causes he is working for -- corporate interests --

and NOT the interests of American citizens!!

In that regard Obama has a backbone of STEEL --

We are now entering a post-Obama era --

and if we don't figure out something to do very soon we will be

in a post-Democratic era -- !!



We are a huge liberal voting bloc -- if we're going to save the

Dem Party, we'd better get busy now!!

[EndElectoral]

58. Honestly, if it means losing an unemployment extension, this insane bill cannot be passed.

[Better Believe It]

60. Just introduce a bill with the extension and keep the Senate in session until it is passed!

No two week holiday break!

And force Republicans to engage in a real filibuster, just as they were back in March of this year.

That one was broke in less than 24 hours.

[defendandprotect]

154. Absolutely... tax cuts for middle class -- take it or leave it -- shove it to GOP....

That's what Thom Hartmann suggested today -- and I totally agree!!

[Better Believe It]

61. Duplicate Deleted

Deleted

[WinkyDink]

62. Starvation kills.

[Poboy]

63. This pResident is selling us into permanent slavery! Oh the irony.

[eleny]

64. This morning Chris Hayes spoke about that on the Majority Report with Sam Seder

He said that this begins to decouple Social Security from people contributing to it via their paychecks. And that's the dangerous step on the slippery slope of destroying Social Security. Once it depends on the General Fund it can be chipped away.

K&R

[glitch]

87. Chris Hayes is absolutely correct. And Sam Seder should have a show on MSNBC.

Even though I don't have cable he deserves a wider audience.

[Better Believe It]

65. Social Security Works Report: President Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Could Unravel Social Security

President Obama's Payroll Tax Holiday Could Unravel Social Security
Prepared by Social Security Works

President Obama has proposed a 2% payroll tax holiday on employees only. Currently, employees pay a 6.2% FICA tax on wages up to $106,800. The Administration’s proposal would exist for one-year and is estimated to cost $120 billion. The revenue Social Security would lose from the payroll tax cut would be paid back from general revenues by the U.S. Treasury.

It’s easy to enact tax cuts – it’s very hard to end them.

A 2% payroll tax cut significantly reduces people’s tax burden. Restoring the tax a year from now will result in a substantial tax increase.
House and Senate Republicans are opposed to any tax increases -- period. Recently, the Senate could not muster the 60 votes needed to raise taxes by less than a nickel on every dollar earned over $1 million, as Sen. Schumer proposed. Just 53 Senators voted to let the Bush tax cuts for millionaires expire – 7 short of the 60 needed.

Restoring the payroll tax cut on someone making $100,000 a year will be a tax increase of $2,000 and a tax increase of $400 on someone making $20,000 a year.

Restoring the 2% lost due to the payroll tax holiday would be a nearly 50% tax increase on 94% of all Americans if the tax has been lowered to 4.2% of earnings. (And just 6% of the workforce makes more than $106,800).

It would undermine Social Security’s long-range solvency.

A 2% payroll tax cut, if unfunded from general revenue, doubles the 75-year projected shortfall projected by the actuaries in the 2010 Trustees Report.

Repaying the Social Security trust fund $120 billion each year will be increasingly more difficult in a political environment dominated by debates over federal deficits and debt; this could result in a huge revenue drain to Social Security.


Keeping the payroll tax cut in place but not paying Social Security back will lead to massive benefits cuts, even as the population rapidly ages.

It would make the goal of improving benefits for low-wage workers all the more difficult.

The only other option will be to cut benefits of the middle class. Because only 6% of the work force makes over $106,800 and because the benefit formula is highly progressive, even eliminating the benefits of richer Americans will not make much difference in solvency.

Making up for the $120 billion of lost annual revenue, plus eliminating the already existing long-term shortfall, will require deep cuts in benefits for the middle class and erode its support.

The weakening of middle-class support will unravel the program in the future.

Social Security has had such broad-based support because it provides meaningful benefits to the middle class, allowing those benefits to be provided to the poor, as well.

President Franklin Roosevelt when he designed Social Security said:
“We put those pay roll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program. Those taxes aren’t a matter of economics, they’re straight politics.”

A payroll tax holiday will promote privatization of Social Security.

Once people are used to having the 2% cut in their own pockets, they will be more susceptible to arguments that they should be able to put the funds into a private account where they can control it. Two percent of the payroll tax diverted to private accounts is the amount Rep. Paul Ryan has proposed be diverted in A Roadmap for America’s Future, which is a plan to privatize Social Security.

There are better ways to provide stimulus to the economy – and that do less harm to Social Security – than a payroll tax holiday.

http://strengthensocialsecurity.org/sites/default/files/SSWObamasPayrollTaxHolidayCouldUnravelSocialSecurityFINAL_NP.pdf

[vssmith]

68. Since 1937 Social Security has collected a substantial surplus

As of 2009 the SSA has collected $2,540,348,000,000 more than it has paid out.
In 2009 it collected $807,490,000,000 and paid out $685,801,000,000

The info can be found at: http://www.ssa.gov/history/tftable.html
Please note that the data in this table are in millions

I have posted this before

[Hell Hath No Fury]

69. I just sent this to everyone I know -

thanks for the link! Very impportant information.

[somone]

72. Yes. This is very important and deserves more publicity

[Poboy]

88. I agree. This should be top priority, imo.

[indimuse]

70. KNR! n/t

[cascadiance]

71. We should change the name from "social" security to society security or civilization security...

So that these

F'ERS

will understand that providing this safety net provides THEM security of a civilized society they can live in as long as they behave and don't try to act like tyrannical royalty. If they keep on this path, there are visions of what happened in the French Revolution that might happen today too when this sort of "security" goes away.

[indimuse]

73. as well as ZERO jobs =Zero SS!!

this aint good~ ;(

[JDPriestly]

76. This is the key. The health care insurance reform already

harmed the Medicare program. That was Obama's first attack on the elderly.

Now this-- the second prong of Obama's attack on seniors.

And, of course, he can count on his Republican buddies to support him on any legislation that harms older people.

I'm sure that Obama's supporters will deny this. But the trend is so clear. The appointments to the Cat Food Commission gave away Obama's agenda. Now this.

Sorry if I am too harsh in may statement of this, but I have been posting about this attack on Medicare and Social Security for a long time. This is the last straw.

You cannot grow the economy on the corpses of the seniors. That is not the right way to go about things.

So much of the money that was irretrievably lost in the stock market crash belonged to seniors. Seniors get no interest on their savings. And seniors should not be investing what small amount of cash they have left in this stock market. It's too risky.

Obama talks vaguely about saving Social Security. But he does not fight for Social Security. He simply has not shown in any measurable way that he cares about seniors at all.

Sorry, I just have to vent about this. It's so disgusting. We who are now seniors did not treat our parents like this.

[Jackpine Radical]

95. The seniors he cares about are the rich ones.

Ergo the lowering of the inheritance tax. (i.e. reinstatement of the IT after a holiday, but at a lower rate than under Bush).

[Politicub]

77. The end.

I didn't even realize that social security contributions were part of this garbage compromise.

It's a sad day all around.

[xchrom]

79. Recommend

[sirthomas66]

81. This is what I have been screaming on this board for two days. I even have

the same post posted.

[mdmc]

83. r

[livingonearth]

84. This needs to get out!

Tell any right wingers you know, and make them understand how this will destroy SS. Tell them to turn off Limbaugh and listen to reason for a change. They are being fed the tired old right-wing lie that says Dems love to tax and spend. That is bullshit!

When it comes down to it, the Dems are the fiscally responsible ones. We(Democrats) realize you must pay for things as you go, and realistically we need taxes for this reason. We don't like taxes, but we know they are necessary to our society. Certain "safety nets" like SS were put in place for a reason, actually many reasons.

This deficit shit has got to stop too. I don't know what has happened to Obama. Sorry for rambling, but I'm pissed.:grr:

[sirthomas66]

85. It's great to be talking to one another, but we have to get the word

out even if we have to pay to do it. To everyone, citizens that is: Democrats, Republicans, Independents. THE PEOPLE HAVE TO KNOW WHAT IS COMING DOWN!!!

[FailureToCommunicate]

89. I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue...

Yes, I agree, tell everyone you know...

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end

[sirthomas66]

93. I've sent out a few hundred emails and have called about 75

people so far with my daughter. People have no idea what Obama is doing. They say something like, "Oh, come on, give me a break. He's not going to do that."

[Poboy]

102. Which is precisely why this is so dangerous.

It is inconceivable that a Democrat would do this. He is going to give away the store from under us, and because of his cowardess, retirement of a nation will be liquidated.

[defendandprotect]

123. May I just ....

interject that I see no way this is "cowardliness" --

This has been going on for two years --

Obama isn't dumb, or lazy or cowardly --

he has a spine of STEEL when it comes to moving forward for

ocrporate and elite interests!!



:eyes:

[Poboy]

130. I will concede your objection, and say I cannot post what I really think!

[sirthomas66]

129. And with it the nation. This is the plan. I knew something was wrong

when he let Bush and Cheney slide. But never in a million years did I think a Democrat would begin the defunding of Social Security. That will end the Party. I would bet on it.

[defendandprotect]

133. Absolutely agree ....

this will put us not only post-Obama, but post-Democratic Party --

unless we begin to move to rescue the party from these corporate forces--

We're a huge liberal voting bloc -- can we rescue the party or do we have to move on?



:eyes:

[sirthomas66]

135. We need to start getting outside and talking to people. Now.

ddddd

[defendandprotect]

152. Certainly everyone has to be aware of what Obama has done ....

purposefully -- not only in trampling univesal health care which 76% of the public

and more wanted -- but in these new back room deals with right wing --

You really need to carry around a list at this point!! Wow --

Problem is as we saw in the past two years here at DU, people want to keep repeating

the junk they hear -- 60 votes and other crap like that --

There's been too much trust in government which I think is a hangover from FDR and

WWII -- a belief in the country, in capitalism --

Too many don't understand the suicidal nature of capitalism --

and that the right wing has only been able to rise here thru political violence/

assassinations -- stolen elections -- lying propaganda.

That rw propaganda has been very effective -- in keeping the public from relaly understanding

global warming -- the state of the economy/class warfare --

Who are we starting with?

Btw, sure as hell looks as though pretty much 99% of DU gets it now!!!

Let's cheer that one at lest!!



:)

[defendandprotect]

122. Ohhhh.....is it really possible? Where are they getting their info?

Americans still have too much trust in government -- hangover

from FDR and the war years, I think?

Everyone needs their BS meter turned up waaaaay higher --

I thought mine was OK, but it's still not high enough!!




:)

[sirthomas66]

96. .

[FailureToCommunicate]

112. You've been busy. Welcome to DU!

[sirthomas66]

131. Thanks. I'll be even busier tomorrow. I hope tomorrow is still Friday, or

did Obama change it to Thursday 2 so we can work more.

[caseymoz]

94. I knew that right when I heard it.

If he's cutting the Social Security tax for a year, it means it's going to run a real deficit. Not what Republicans claim is insolvent, but real insolvency.

Why have the payroll tax do this. Why not a tax break out of general taxes instead? Or a larger EITC?

It's a way for conservatives to finally undermine social security. It should be sent back to Obama with a stink bomb.

[sirthomas66]

98. That's what I thought, too. Just do a withholding rate adjustment

on FIT deductions. What he is trying to do is plain as day. He was told what to do by the corporatists, just like healthcare. He is done as president. He may as well just play basketball all day.

[defendandprotect]

97. k/r

[scarletwoman]

99. K&R - this is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!

Sorry, I'm so disgusted by what Obama is doing that I can't write a coherent post.

This is ridiculous -- I mean, what the hell? What is the deal with this guy we elected president? I still can't figure out whether he's just plain evil, or just plain stupid.

We all hoped that the nightmare would end after the end of bush* presidency. But it hasn't, it just keeps building.

:cry: :grr: :banghead:

[defendandprotect]

120. We're a huge liberal voting bloc ... let's get busy thinking about what we can do....

especially to prevent two more years like this!!

What would be left?

Don't know why it took so long for everyone to see this --

but it's before everyone's eyes now -- and undeniable, sadly.

Either we are going to follow this post-Obama era with a

post-Democratic Party era or we are going to find a way to

hold onto the party -- while ridding ourselves of those damaging

it. That will take ousting the DLC-corporate wing and any who

represent it.

And I think we have to begin to pressure Obama to announce he

will step down in 2012.


And, btw, there is some information on the internet now about

Obama having connections to the CIA through his family -- his

mother -- his biological father -- and his step-father.

[sirthomas66]

126. The first thing is to let Nancy Pelosi and the Dems know that if

Obama begins the first reduction in payroll tax in the program's history, that we will primary Obama in 2012 or vote 3rd Party. And this must be done by everyone as if their very lives depended on it! Is everyone's children going to support future parents who have had their social security ripped from the by this man? What will that do for the economy?

[defendandprotect]

132. K/R for your post .... I don't think enough here understand complications of S/S attack....

Certainly isn't a jobs program!!!


:eyes:

[Better Believe It]

147. They can handle that but would have a problem with mass movements against the cuts

hitting the streets and broad and powerful independent political movements that can't be co-opted or controlled.

[704wipes]

155. I just let my dem congressman know, good idea

Called and left a message. Told him he should drive up to the white house and deliver the message we will primary Obama and any dem congressman who votes for this , ESPECIALLY since Obama made the deal with republicans without even consulting the Dems !

[scarletwoman]

127. No, we're not actually "a huge liberal voting bloc".

We're an extremely small politically engaged minority. And most of us restrict our political engagement to posting on an internet forum.

The only hope for this country -- and it's a very faint hope, nearly non-existant -- is for the Working Class to revolt against the Ruling Class.

I highly doubt that's going to happen. And for sure, it's NOT going to happen via partisan electoral politics.

The main thing that the Obama presidency has proved is that electoral politics don't mean shit. Either get something happening on the ground in your community, or forget it.

Electoral politics changes nothing.

sw

[StarsInHerHair]

157. how about Governors refusing to holiday the payroll tax? protecting SS

on the State level?

[sirthomas66]

159. Can they do that? I don't think so.

[StarsInHerHair]

160. I don't know, they could try to keep federal taxes at the same levels,

at least try to do something constructive........

[maritzasolito]

107. blackwaterdog will never be on TV! She is for "logic", not noise!

"To be a “true progressive” is to hate Barack Obama. The rest can drop dead
So for the past three days, the only thing that matters to “progressives” is waging a holy war against Barack Obama. And over what? A deal that in the end is actually very good for the middle class, the unemployed and all those that we’re supposed to take care of. And, as Krugman had to admit - is also good for the economy.
Hell no - It’s the Obama hate that trumps all.
Every ounce of energy went to find new ways to trash, bash, badmouth and smear Barack Obama, with more than just a hint of racism. But hey, look at Keith Olbermann’s ratings!
What if 10% of that energy was spent on pressing congress on DADT? What if the money spent on racist anti-Obama commercials would go to DADT repeal campaign? What if instead of sitting behind the keyboards, spitting on the only serious man around and admiring the clueless self-appointed “Liberals speakers” - They would have focus on making the lives of the Scott Browns a living hell? you know, actually DOING something, instead of whining all day? Maybe, just maybe, DADT would be dead tonight.
But hey, on second thought, this is much better: Rachel’s ratings will soar, and best of all: There’s a new fuel supply to burn Barack Obama with.
Sanctimonious? He was being polite.": http://blackwaterdog.wordpress.com/2010/12/09/to-be-a-true-progressive-is-to-hate-barack-obama-the-rest-can-drop-dead/

[Better Believe It]

117. Please stay on topic. Why do you support the plan to cut the Social Security tax ?

Or if you oppose it, why you oppose the cut.

I'm listening.

[sirthomas66]

121. What!!!!!! Can you not read? His plan is to defund Social Security

by first reducing the witholding taxes for it. He has to go.

[KoKo]

125. That's really unkind to say that. Did you READ the ARTICLE? Stealth Bomb against SS!

It's important we know this. Did you know that an "Ethanol Subsidy" is ALSO in that BILL?

[Liberalynn]

150. So you don't care about any of the people on SS

we can all just go starve right? By all means its more important to support the President whether or not he is right or wrong. :sarcasm: We are all just saying mean things to him now because we are sanctamonious snobs? Its not because we fear how we are going to survive without SS right?

[TBF]

113. No kidding. nt

[KoKo]

124. "The Devil is Always in the Details" that don't become apparent until after Bill is Signed!

Good Report!

[Poboy]

162. kick

[jtown1123]

164. NCPSSM has a new legislative hotline for this issue: 1 800 998 0180, please call today

[Poboy]

166. kick for exposure.

[Kingofalldems]

168. Kick this important story

[blindpig]

169. Class warfare

Parties mean nothing.

Personalities mean nothing.

Class means everything.